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Post by Moderator on Mar 20, 2020 14:47:56 GMT
According to a poll conducted by Reuters between March 16-19, 2020 the economists agree that the global economy is already in a recession as a result of the hit to economic activity from the coronavirus pandemic.
What are the consequences on HMIC and our investment of this unexpected and sudden depression? - More foreclosures, i.e. Assets taken as settlement of debt will more likely increase - Less business on mortgage side due to slow economic activity, no interest in real estate for a while, low interest rates, increased competitions from the banks - Lower dividend for investors
In this adverse environment, we can expect that only the strongest MICs will survive; as HMIC business is already weak compared to its peers, its collapse is to be expected.
There is a silver lining for HE Investors: in times like this, the best investment is in hard assets. Lands and buildings are not going anywhere and it is only a matter of time that the world will be back to normal life.
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bojo
New Member
I'd rather be dead in ditch than agree to get scammed
Posts: 8
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Post by bojo on Mar 20, 2020 18:36:35 GMT
Agree with HMIC future, collapse is to be expected; our silver lining could work with a different management.
With our assets in their care we can say good buy to our investment
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Post by forexloonie on Mar 20, 2020 18:58:25 GMT
Maybe we'll see some action. For me the worst is having my money locked up indefinetly. Uncertainty is killing me.
Larry Dunn is an incompetent and arrogant CEO that thinks he has absolute power on Investors and their money.
I'll take whatever brings this standoff to a conclusion! At least I get certainty
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brad1
Full Member
Posts: 39
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Post by brad1 on Mar 20, 2020 23:46:22 GMT
Maybe we'll see some action. For me the worst is having my money locked up indefinetly. Uncertainty is killing me. Larry Dunn is an incompetent and arrogant CEO that thinks he has absolute power on Investors and their money. I'll take whatever brings this standoff to a conclusion! At least I get certainty Sadly enough, at this point I would trade anything for certainly, including 50% of my investment. Low standards
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Post by maryanne on Mar 21, 2020 0:31:26 GMT
On its new pro-mangement forum, HarbourEdge launched a new blame finger pointing game. As you can easily guess, the blame finger is pointed to the minority group π€
There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that the CEO - Larry Dunn is the ultimate responsible for the HMIC failure. He must GO and allow a competent CEO to rescue the company
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brad1
Full Member
Posts: 39
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Post by brad1 on Mar 21, 2020 16:06:48 GMT
Agree, the global recession is a threat for HMIC survival; unfortunately for HE, not the only one. The biggest challenge that HMIC faces currently is not coming from the non-performing assets but from the unhappy Investors that totally lost confidence in HE and are strongly opposed to HE plan to split their invest in Class A (mortgages) and Class B (real estate construction/development). As OBCA and Securities Law protect Investors, HE cannot do this type of change without suitability assessment or a Plan of Arrangement that needs the support of more than 66% of the outstanding shares to pass; even in this case the shareholders have the right to dissent and exit the fund.
The unhappy Investors can also initiate Oppression legal actions β the oppression remedy is in place to protect minorities in a company in situations where oppressive conduct violates the reasonable expectations of that minority. This would build on unfairness of the proposed restructuring (which favours the remaining shareholders over those that want to depart). In an oppression action, the court has great latitude to make any order that would cure the oppressive conduct. The unhappy Investors can also apply to the court for a wind-up of the corporation (on terms to be set by the court, including an orderly payout of proceeds when received).
The outcome of legal action initiated by a group of Investors is a major threat to the HMIC survival.
HE should first and urgently address the threat to its survival that is "unhappy Investors" and not the non-performing assets. It is obvious that the split that could save their company is not between performing and non-performing assets but rather between Investors that want to exit the fund and Investors that want to remain.
This is exactly what Two MIC proposal addresses.
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Post by nemesis on Mar 21, 2020 18:38:58 GMT
As a 'very unhappy investor' I thank you for your insight here.
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Post by forexloonie on Mar 21, 2020 19:58:12 GMT
HE should first and urgently address the threat to its survival that is "unhappy Investors" and not the non-performing assets. It is obvious that the split that could save their company is not between performing and non-performing assets but rather between Investors that want to exit the fund and Investors that want to remain. This is exactly what Two MIC proposal addresses. I am a very unhappy HE investor myself, a badge of honor these days My two cents is that for HE an exit option similar to ELO could be easier to implement (they already did it). The result is the same, we split the assets, both performing and non-performing I am okay to take a cut as a price for getting out from this insanity
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Post by disgustedbeyond on Mar 21, 2020 20:59:23 GMT
Occur to anyone this is an open forum ? Voicing opinions β Iβll take 50% β. β Iβll take a cut β . All fine n dandy an eventuality best met when decisions need to be made , instead of giving HE the pleasure of rubbing their hands together β letβs see how deep we can discount them w another ELO β I need not point out various devious scenarios they can come up with to cash in on β our β malaise .
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Post by Moderator on Mar 21, 2020 21:30:21 GMT
Occur to anyone this is an open forum ? Voicing opinions β Iβll take 50% β. β Iβll take a cut β . All fine n dandy an eventuality best met when decisions need to be made , instead of giving HE the pleasure of rubbing their hands together β letβs see how deep we can discount them w another ELO β I need not point out various devious scenarios they can come up with to cash in on β our β malaise . Well said, disgustedbeyond , I am with you on this one. As it levels the field, the orderly wind-up, executed in-house by HE (no receiver or fire sale), is the only truly fair and equal solution for ALL Investors: distribute pro-rata HMIC assets (performing and non-performing) to the current shareholders. In fact, due to the nature of the market, we do not know at this point what will be the capital loss. HE tries to sell us the idea of "HRAC assets remediation". That is done by sinking more cash into the construction sites that had been abandoned for a reason and then increasing the asset valuation on paper. When the assets are sold, we are not going to get the value from paper, but what the MARKET pays for those assets and this is indeed the only way to be fair with ALL Investors.
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Post by nemesis on Mar 21, 2020 21:32:21 GMT
Optimal outcome would be to see those grifters in jail. Faint hope but daily fantasy.
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Post by thebigshort on Mar 21, 2020 21:54:01 GMT
Optimal outcome would be to see those grifters in jail. Faint hope but daily fantasy. My lawyer tells me that, if fraud or misrepresentation can be proved, "there may be an action for damages against HE Director(s) when this is all over". Directors are accountable in Canada and punished for lesser missteps than misrepresentation that is business like usual for HE Directors
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Post by disgustedbeyond on Mar 22, 2020 0:17:31 GMT
Another thing that has been on my mind for some time is the initial ELO . -15% discount . Does anyone know apprx. What The paper amount was? -15% = ? 100% is invested in the fund you only redeem 85% value from the sale of toxic assets , and yet many properties were sold at 100%+++ of invested values . Where am I going wrong here ? Need someone to explain to me in the absence of increased dividends reflecting β profit β or the surplus being chewed up by other properties ? Iβll await some guidance on this .
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Post by Moderator on Mar 22, 2020 15:57:05 GMT
Another thing that has been on my mind for some time is the initial ELO . -15% discount . Does anyone know apprx. What The paper amount was? -15% = ? 100% is invested in the fund you only redeem 85% value from the sale of toxic assets , and yet many properties were sold at 100%+++ of invested values . Where am I going wrong here ? Need someone to explain to me in the absence of increased dividends reflecting β profit β or the surplus being chewed up by other properties ? Iβll await some guidance on this . In his letter pushed to Investors by HE management on January 21, 2020, Blake Wallace confirmed that the best assets have been sold to pay the ELO: " Remember, the best assets have already been sold for the early leavers." Besides this information from an authorized source, I also have data that I gathered in a spreadsheet, based on both financial statements and the emails that updated us on the ELO progress. 1. Data provided by the audited Financial Statements
| June 30, 2016 | June 30, 2017 | June 30, 2018 | June 30, 2019 | Balance ELO (in shares) | $60,345,184 | $29,108,444 | $6,011,133 | $0 | ELO redemption amount (in shares) | $0 | $31,236,740 | $23,097,311 | $6,011,133 | ELO actual redemption amount (after 15% cut) | $51,293,406 | $26,551,229 | $19,632,714 | $5,109,463 | ELO extinguishment (15% gained by HE) | $9,051,777 |
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2. Was the ELO paid from performing (cash from mortgage maturities) or non-performing (real estate) assets ? According to "June 30-2016 MDA", half of the $60 redemption amount has been paid within one year from the ELO launch from performing assets (mortgage maturities): "We have now redeemed 30 million shares tendered under the ELO with 30.3 million shares remaining to be redeemed." Based on the ELO updates sent via email, 25% of the redemption amount have been paid out by selling real estate assets: June 5, 2017 $1,175,000 July 4, 2017 $6,000,000 February 15, 2018 $2,000,000 January 1, 2019 $5,825,000 I cannot reconcile how $15,000,000 (25%) have been paid out: cash from mortgage maturities or real estate selling proceeds? 3. Last but not least, the ELO shareholders continued to receive dividends on the remaining part of shares, unless HE had a special understanding with them, which is not likely as ELO group had an excellent negotiator. Between 2016 and 2018, the ELO shareholders received an estimated of $3 million in dividends (5% of their redeemed investment); if the shareholder was a Westcourt investor that requested to redeem their investment in September 2015, they received 10% in dividends between 2015 and 2018 which translates in only 5% discount and not 15% as advertised. Well done, Westcourt!
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bojo
New Member
I'd rather be dead in ditch than agree to get scammed
Posts: 8
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Post by bojo on Mar 23, 2020 22:14:00 GMT
How is the HE Reorg plan going to work in the new uncertain environment? Besides more foreclosures that was already listed as a predictable issue, I cannot see the strategy to pay the redemptions from new money working. We cannot expect an abundance of funds looking for a place to park
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