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Post by nemesis on Feb 23, 2020 13:15:53 GMT
Undisclosed HRAC projects that need urgent answersRecen
Recent ly a fellow investor discovered on the TARION website some HRAC real estate projects that HarbourEdge has never disclosed to us.
HRAC has been registered with TARION Warranty Program in the Builder/Vendor category since about 2013 (refer to www.tarion.com/ontariobuilderdirectory/builder/profile/42720).
Under “Enrolments” and “Projects”, besides projects that HarbourEdge has reported to the investors (Brockville, Perth and 11 Bay Street), there are also projects we were never told of:
- Private Residences of the Georgian Bay Club (516689 7th Line) that are sold by Georgian Bay Estates Ltd. (http://privateresatgbc.com/ )
- Luxury residences on Georgian Bay Lane, some of them finished and sold on the market, e.g. sothebysrealty.ca/en/property/ontario/central-ontario-real-estate/the-blue-mountains/424018/
- A condo project in Stayner, On
To date HMIC has never reported to the shareholders about these three properties in their list of HRAC assets.
Here are the questions all investors should be asking management:
• Why is HRAC, a HarbourEdge company, listed as the builder/vendor of these other projects when these projects have not been previously reported to the investors as HRAC assets?
• Is HRAC, in fact, paying the fees associated with Tarion enrolment. As the listed builder is HRAC paying related construction costs?
• As the registered builder and vendor, HRAC would assume liabilities attached to the quality of the finished properties. These are not liabilities that shareholders should be comfortable taking on.
• If HRAC is the registered vendor/builder is HMIC also the lender (also not reported to date to the shareholders)?
• Are the directors of HarbourEdge conducting business outside of the purview of the MIC
These are unsettling questions that need answers ASAP!
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brad1
Full Member
Posts: 39
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Post by brad1 on Feb 23, 2020 16:15:47 GMT
We should add to the list another question:
Who is the builder of the Holiday Inn Express and Suites at the corner of Hume and Pretty River Parkway in Collingwood that officially is a project of Dunn Capital Corporation, Larry Dunn's Corporation?
Is the lender HMIC?
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worried
Junior Member
Super worried for my investment in HarbourEdge
Posts: 13
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Post by worried on Feb 23, 2020 23:00:43 GMT
A good Q to be asked: how do we benefit from those projects being in our ownership? Terrible news for us, LD is not trustworthy (I had faith in him ).
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Post by nemesis on Feb 24, 2020 0:03:29 GMT
Lots of investors are personal friends and acquaintances of Mr. Dunn and Mr. Dwyer - no one believed that HE management would not be operating in good faith. Many investors are not nameless, faceless people - they socialized with the directors of HE for many years - they play golf at his club. They know his family. That is why it has taken us five years to get to this point. Investors had confidence that Dunn and Co. would right the ship and protect our investments. Now we are beginning to understand that this was not and is not the case.
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Post by forexloonie on Feb 24, 2020 1:39:22 GMT
Time to call them out on their dishonesty? Or better alert the OSC / OPP? Time to open the books!
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brad1
Full Member
Posts: 39
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Post by brad1 on Feb 24, 2020 15:33:49 GMT
A good Q to be asked: how do we benefit from those projects being in our ownership? Time to call them out on their dishonesty? Or better alert the OSC / OPP? Time to open the books! Good Q, worried , I would take it a step further and also ask: Is the ownership of these projects hurting us? Being their builder/vendor we are on the hook not only for expenses but also for the scary thing called LIABILITYRemember HE explanation for selling an HRAC property (our property) from PEI, West Covehead to a numbered corporation owned by the HE Directors? According to HE the purpose of this transaction was to limit the LIABILITY of Investors. In fact this transaction did not solve the problem, i.e. if the numbered corp is owned by HRAC, and HRAC is owned by HMIC, so are its liabilities. The liabilities are coming back to HMIC. Not only HE did not explain how this transaction limit our liability, but they did not disclose the costs and property selling price. forexloonie , I agree with taking these concerns to the security regulator, with so many inconvenient truths piling up, it's time to lift the corporate veil.
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brad1
Full Member
Posts: 39
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Post by brad1 on Mar 17, 2020 13:31:54 GMT
Remember HE explanation for selling an HRAC property (our property) from PEI, West Covehead to a numbered corporation owned by the HE Directors? According to HE the purpose of this transaction was to limit the LIABILITY of Investors. In fact this transaction did not solve the problem, i.e. if the numbered corp is owned by HRAC, and HRAC is owned by HMIC, so are its liabilities. The liabilities are coming back to HMIC. The property “ Covehead, PEI all lands” is reported as Sold for $ 110,521 at 79% loss when compared to $521,115 reported as NAV on June 30, 2019. On June 2, 2019 part of Covehead property was acquired from HMIC by “2680692 ON Ltd”, incorporated on Feb 12, 2019 by Tim Dwyer as sole Director according to the Corporate Certificate available in public records. Now that the property is sold, as "the true owners of this property", we should be told: - After 2680692 ON Ltd., Tim's corporation, sold the land acquired from HMIC, what entity has the liability of common roads?
- Financial details for the following transactions: land transfer from HMIC to 2680692, selling price, selling proceeds transferred from 2680692 to HMIC
Send Larry Dunn and Tim Dwyer an email with these questions and share with us their answer if any
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Post by nemesis on Mar 17, 2020 14:20:22 GMT
With regard to the properties in total - what would be the most up-to-date listing of all properties currently held by HE? And are there other properties besides the Covehead property that have recently sold or even been listed for sale. And where did the proceeds from the Covehead sale go? Anybody ??
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Post by forexloonie on Mar 17, 2020 20:54:42 GMT
With regard to the properties in total - what would be the most up-to-date listing of all properties currently held by HE? And are there other properties besides the Covehead property that have recently sold or even been listed for sale. And where did the proceeds from the Covehead sale go? Anybody ?? HE strategy is to send us incomplete lists and changes the format all the time to make it hard for us to trace the properties listed for sale. I would love to know what happens with the proceeds from HRAC sales. Perhaps mixed up in the books of Larry's corporations that are listing their projects on the HRAC Tarion registration?
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Post by Moderator on Mar 31, 2020 14:19:54 GMT
Undisclosed HRAC projects that need urgent answersRecen Recently a fellow investor discovered on the TARION website some HRAC real estate projects that HarbourEdge has never disclosed to us. HRAC has been registered with TARION Warranty Program in the Builder/Vendor category since about 2013 (refer to www.tarion.com/ontariobuilderdirectory/builder/profile/42720). Under “Enrolments” and “Projects”, besides projects that HarbourEdge has reported to the investors (Brockville, Perth and 11 Bay Street), there are also projects we were never told of: - Private Residences of the Georgian Bay Club (516689 7th Line) that are sold by Georgian Bay Estates Ltd. (http://privateresatgbc.com/ ) - Luxury residences on Georgian Bay Lane, some of them finished and sold on the market, e.g. sothebysrealty.ca/en/property/ontario/central-ontario-real-estate/the-blue-mountains/424018/ - A condo project in Stayner, On
To date HMIC has never reported to the shareholders about these three properties in their list of HRAC assets. Here are the questions all investors should be asking management: • Why is HRAC, a HarbourEdge company, listed as the builder/vendor of these other projects when these projects have not been previously reported to the investors as HRAC assets? • Is HRAC, in fact, paying the fees associated with Tarion enrolment. As the listed builder is HRAC paying related construction costs? • As the registered builder and vendor, HRAC would assume liabilities attached to the quality of the finished properties. These are not liabilities that shareholders should be comfortable taking on. • If HRAC is the registered vendor/builder is HMIC also the lender (also not reported to date to the shareholders)? • Are the directors of HarbourEdge conducting business outside of the purview of the MIC
These are unsettling questions that need answers ASAP! Just to summarize HE response to these unsettling questions related to how the business of Georgian Bay Estates Limited, owned by Larry Dunn is mingled with HRAC: the ONLY explanation that HE provided to the investor who found this information is that HRAC’s Tarion registration fee “is shared with Georgian Bay Estates Limited with the purpose of saving the Shareholders' money”, but also all the checks are in place to ensure that the expenses & liability incurred by Georgian Bay Estates are not supported by HRAC, i.e. shareholders. This explanation generated more serious questions: Why are HMIC Investors exposed to this complicated scheme that doesn’t seem legal under Tarion rules that requires a builder to be registered in its own name to be legit? How is the concept of “sharing” the enrollment fees implemented operationally, i.e. in books? How are these transactions recorded? An investor followed up with these questions addressed to the HE executives these questions were NEVER ANSWERED: - Not only "sharing" the vendor registration fee, that is very little ($2,500 for a New Entrant builder/vendor and the annual renewal $500), does not justify the trouble of having to keep the accounting clean and an Indemnity Agreement between HRAC & an outside company, but it is also against the HRAC interests and outside its business purview
- HE states that “All costs associated with the Tarion registration are paid pro rata by the companies sharing this Tarion registration.”. What other companies, besides Georgian Bay Estates, are “sharing” the Tarion registration with HRAC?
- Georgian Bay Estates is not registered with Tarion as a builder, so we don’t see how is the concept of “sharing” the enrolment fees implemented operationally, i.e. in books? And again, the big question WHY is HRAC exposed to this complicated scheme? How is this beneficial for us, like investors? Why was not this disclosed to shareholders?
Not only these unusual transactions were not disclosed to shareholders, but even after the questions have been asked HE executives did not send a communication to ALL shareholders with clarifications!
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Post by nemesis on Mar 31, 2020 14:58:24 GMT
Saving the shareholders a couple of thousand dollars on Tarion fees does not pass the smell test...AT ALL. There must be a better explanation than that.
Its a simple enough question to answer is it not? How many companies are 'sharing' the Tarion registration. And Georgian Bay Estates is the developer and not registered - so the builder for Georgian Bay Estates is who? Because they need to be registered.
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barb
Junior Member
Posts: 11
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Post by barb on Mar 31, 2020 15:46:08 GMT
A rumor circulating around is that questions like these, qualified as insinuations, "have caused harm to all shareholders in HMIC".
Not very clear HOW? Here we go, another question for HE
Why don't they send a proper explanation to all investors?
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Post by nemesis on Mar 31, 2020 17:10:33 GMT
Why don't they send a proper explanation to all investors?
For the same reason that they have never held a shareholder meeting. Mr. Dwyer was appointed quite a long time ago to be Mr. Dunn's spokesperson. Mr. Dunn (with the assistance of his legal council) composes the email explanations and Mr. Dwyer is charged with sending and then answering any follow up questions ONLY on a one to one basis. The sign off on their emails is always the same - please contact Tim Dwyer should you have any questions or concerns. He is happy to meet with you, but only you. There have been one or two meetings in the past with a very small group of investors, but the outcome of those meetings has never been fruitful for investors trying to figure out how to extricate themselves from the MIC.
This is how they are able to control the narrative. They do not want an actual room full of investors calling them out in real time about their business practices and the future of the company.
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Post by Moderator on Apr 1, 2020 20:44:22 GMT
More than 2 weeks ago, a fellow Investor sent the following questions to Larry Dunn and Tim Dwyer. No answers have been provided so far:
"In the last HRAC sales activity report from March 13, 2020, the property “Covehead, PEI all lands” is reported as Sold for $ 110,521 at 79% loss when compared to $521,115 reported as NAV on June 30, 2019. This is a significant loss indeed.
On June 2, 2019 part of Covehead property was acquired from HMIC by “2680692 ON Ltd”, incorporated on Feb 12, 2019 by Tim Dwyer as sole Director according to the Corporate Certificate available in public records at Service ON. At the time, you explained that such an unusual transaction was necessary to protect Shareholders interest, because the property has common roads which could result in HMIC having a liability to maintain.
Despite your explanation my concern remained that the liability cannot be transferred from HMIC to the numbered corporation as long as HMIC is the only owner of this corporation, as a result responsible for its liabilities.
Now that the property is sold, please explain: 1. After 2680692 sold the land acquired from HMIC, what entity has the liability of common roads? 2. Please, provide financial details for the following transactions: land transfer from HMIC to 2680692, selling price, selling proceeds transferred from 2680692 to HMIC 3. What happens now with 2680692 ON Ltd? (you referred to this corporation as “single use numbered company”)
Thank you for your time"
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harry
Junior Member
Posts: 15
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Post by harry on Apr 1, 2020 20:48:04 GMT
Does anyone have the complete list of HRAC properties? NOT just the list for sale where the last document had $17M listed for sale. If over 100M is tied up in HRAC there must be dozens of properties they are working on or just holding.
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