|
Post by nemesis on Jan 16, 2020 16:13:54 GMT
It is very disappointing but also pretty clear to me that many investors are hoping that someone else is going to fix this complicated problem for them, and they will just wait for some new kind of arrangement to be brought forward that will give them their own personal money back... sooner than later of course. This is very unlikely to happen. Pressure needs to be brought to bear that will force management to open the books, fully account for the mess that we are currently trying to unravel and give investors a path forward to redeem their shares at fair value.
Let us be clear - management will come back again with another 'arrangement' for shareholder vote. If shareholders are unwilling to understand the implications of what they are voting for or against, then they have left the fate of their investment with management. They are telling management that they are willing to support a subsidiary development company with the hope that eventually HE will develop and sell these properties for a profit and everyone will make money. The only thing that is guaranteed here is that management will continue to make money through fees of several different kinds.
Those of us who don't believe that this scenario will come to fruition want a path to redemption. Those who believe that HE has their best interests at heart, then by all means, continue to do business with them. But everyone has the responsibility to understand what is currently happening. And if you don't, then phone your financial adviser, or your accountant or your lawyer or whoever is in a position to explain the ramifications to you of what is being proposed by investors and what is being proposed by management. No one is going to 'fix' this for you while you passively wait and hope for the best. Contact management. ASK HARD QUESTIONS. And analyze the response that you get. Participate. And join the dialogue. Ask questions on this forum - knowledgeable posters may be able to assist.
|
|
worried
Junior Member
Super worried for my investment in HarbourEdge
Posts: 13
|
Post by worried on Jan 16, 2020 16:57:24 GMT
It is very disappointing but also pretty clear to me that many investors are hoping that someone else is going to fix this complicated problem for them, and they will just wait for some new kind of arrangement to be brought forward that will give them their own personal money back... sooner than later of course. This is very unlikely to happen. Pressure needs to be brought to bear that will force management to open the books, fully account for the mess that we are currently trying to unravel and give investors a path forward to redeem their shares at fair value. Let us be clear - management will come back again with another 'arrangement' for shareholder vote. If shareholders are unwilling to understand the implications of what they are voting for or against, then they have left the fate of their investment with management. They are telling management that they are willing to support a subsidiary development company with the hope that eventually HE will develop and sell these properties for a profit and everyone will make money. The only thing that is guaranteed here is that management will continue to make money through fees of several different kinds. Those of us who don't believe that this scenario will come to fruition want a path to redemption. Those who believe that HE has their best interests at heart, then by all means, continue to do business with them. But everyone has the responsibility to understand what is currently happening. And if you don't, then phone your financial adviser, or your accountant or your lawyer or whoever is in a position to explain the ramifications to you of what is being proposed by investors and what is being proposed by management. No one is going to 'fix' this for you while you passively wait and hope for the best. Contact management. ASK HARD QUESTIONS. And analyze the response that you get. Participate. And join the dialogue. Ask questions on this forum - knowledgeable posters may be able to assist. I paid for legal advice to understand the plan submitted to our vote. Asking Qs is necessary, but some of us are passed that. And, in our experience, they ignore most of the investors Qs, especially the difficult ones. We want out and HE directors cannot ignore our request for ever. It is their company, that's true, but remember, they manage OUR MONEY. Their stake is very small, it doesn't give them the right to make decisions ignoring our interests. If they prepare their plan, maybe we should prepare ours and make an appearance in court to explain how HE plan prejudices us, if this is the case
|
|
|
Post by rationalinvestor on Jan 16, 2020 18:30:36 GMT
You should have received an email today from Robert G. Mitchell. He's done some terrific work on behalf of all investors. I'm sure HE Management will have some cogent answers. I look forward to hearing them.
|
|
|
Post by nemesis on Jan 16, 2020 18:38:17 GMT
I paid for legal advice to understand the plan submitted to our vote. Asking Qs is necessary, but some of us are passed that. And, in our experience, they ignore most of the investors Qs, especially the difficult ones.
We want out and HE directors cannot ignore our request for ever. It is their company, that's true, but remember, they manage OUR MONEY. Their stake is very small, it doesn't give them the right to make decisions ignoring our interests.
If they prepare their plan, maybe we should prepare ours and make an appearance in court to explain, how HE plans prejudices us, if this is the case
Knowledge is power!!! What we are most definitely lacking is knowledge - of what HE has done in the past and what their real intentions are in the future. Going to court can be a futile exercise unless we know exactly what has been transpiring - that is why many investors have been complaining for so long about lack of comprehensive reporting. We don't know how the money is flowing, what fees are being taken, what the REAL value of the real estate is .... without a forensic audit, we may never know. HE has told a plethora of stories to different investors at different times depending on what they do or do not wish to disclose. Lies by omission in many cases. Just like the Trump administration. The lack of integrity is there for all to see. But is there illegality as well? That's a much higher burden of proof.
|
|
|
Post by disgustedbeyond on Jan 16, 2020 21:09:59 GMT
And hence my previous comments of how they are masters of the concept “ knowledge / information “ is power . Art of war . They will at all costs avoid a mass Q/A meeting . With most of us it’s a “ he said , she said “ us relying on years of previous encounters where in the community trust was built . Start adding massive amounts of earnings / fees through the years and they broke the faith . Some of us reading were their cheerleaders , recommending friends!!! The whole financial world was brought to its knees not that many years back . Add the fatal ingredient greed and power , and here we are . A lot of us had unfortunate blind faith in a couple of the principals of HE running many! Years back . Some of us at our age cannot take a hit as hard as May be coming , in the meantime I somehow feel that the principals of HE will only experience it as a nuisance visa bill due to their net worth . I expect a number of scenarios being run up the flag pole , before the proverbial hits the fan .
|
|
|
Post by thebigshort on Jan 17, 2020 17:02:51 GMT
You should have received an email today from Robert G. Mitchell. He's done some terrific work on behalf of all investors. I'm sure HE Management will have some cogent answers. I look forward to hearing them. rationalinvestor, I detect from your answer ("I'm sure HE Management will have some cogent answers.") that you have faith in HE management. However, the "small group" questions / requests do not reflect a lot of: - confidence ("Management has frequently made claims that they have significant capital invested in the fund. After studying the shareholder list carefully we can find only small amounts of capital invested by the Dwyer and Turbitt families though the Dunns, Prests and Harrops are invested. In fact it is our observation that one of our investors, Dave Hyma, has more invested than the combined
management group.") or - approval for various actions the management is taking against investors ("Harbour Edge to cease spending investor money on lawyers fighting against the investors. Harbour Edge must pay its own legal fees and please advise how much you have spent to date.")
Honestly, I have trouble reconciling your total confidence in management with your approval for the "small group" questioning that the management is acting in the best interest of all investors
|
|
|
Post by rationalinvestor on Jan 17, 2020 17:22:37 GMT
thebigshort You mistake my confidence they’ll have a cogent answer with whether I’ll have confidence in management. I share your concerns. I’m not a cheerleader but I’m trying to keep my mind open. So far, this forum is populated by one-sided arguments. They may well be correct. Or there might be reasonable answers. HE is doing themselves a real disservice by not engaging here. And even if they come up with a single email with answers to issues brought up to date, I’m sure there will be still more debate, so they really need to engage in the future. I’m not optimistic we’ll be made whole. But I’m also not confident that the best solution is to blow it up. I want to hear the other side - I assume there is one. And I won’t jump to greed as their sole motivation until I have more facts and hear their arguments.
|
|
|
Post by nemesis on Jan 19, 2020 0:31:16 GMT
And I won’t jump to greed as their sole motivation until I have more facts and hear their arguments.
I very much doubt that you are going to be given 'more facts' or hear arguments that make sense and are based on fact. Consider how little reporting was given to the investors in the last 4 years. Consider how management consistently refuses to hold a shareholder meeting. Consider why investors received financial information mere days before the planned vote on a new 'arrangement'. Perhaps wonder why to this day management refuses to allow us contact information so that all investors are invited to this forum or to receive up-dates from other investors through email. These are NOT oversights. There is a very good reason why management does not want to meet with investors as a group. The less investors know, the easier it is for management to run the company that they want to run - which now includes real estate development.
|
|
|
Post by forexloonie on Jan 23, 2020 16:19:01 GMT
Besides the many corporations Mr. Dunn already has (Dunn Capital, Dunn Corp Group of Companies, etc), there is also a recent addition - numbered corp #2680692 registered in ON on Feb 12, 2019 that acquired Lots 33 and 34 (West Covehead, PEI 209.99 acres) from HMIC! It seems suspicious to me. Check-it out in PEI public records PEI Lands ProtectionAnd to add more to Mr. Dunn "experience" in real estate development, specifically the ethical aspect of it, please read this CBC article from May 2017 where HarbourEdge behavior proves ruthless and insensitive (sounds familiar?) Moncton developer blocks longtime entrance to popular trailWow, HE brought up my post with ALL investors! West Covehead, PEI: It still doesn't clarify how did the transaction solve the problem to avoid liability for life on the roads: if #2680692 Ontario forecloses on this property, it assumes the liability for life on the roads. As #2680692 Ontario is owned by HRAC, and HRAC by HMIC, so are its liabilities. The liabilities are coming back to HMIC. About the other one: "Moncton developer blocks longtime entrance to popular trail" HE says it's False (it should bring that up with CBC). If they are referring to "This property is not a provincial park but private development lands.", than they are right. But they still don't get it, HE is just being HE. The point here, dear HE, is made by a Moncton resident: "I just don't think it's very New Brunswicker of this person to put housing in the middle of a public trail that has been used and is very sacred to Monctonians.”
|
|
|
Post by nemesis on Jan 23, 2020 19:23:01 GMT
Besides the many corporations Mr. Dunn already has (Dunn Capital, Dunn Corp Group of Companies, etc), there is also a recent addition - numbered corp #2680692 registered in ON on Feb 12, 2019 that acquired Lots 33 and 34 (West Covehead, PEI 209.99 acres) from HMIC! It seems suspicious to me. Check-it out in PEI public records PEI Lands ProtectionAnd to add more to Mr. Dunn "experience" in real estate development, specifically the ethical aspect of it, please read this CBC article from May 2017 where HarbourEdge behavior proves ruthless and insensitive (sounds familiar?) Moncton developer blocks longtime entrance to popular trailWow, HE brought up my post with ALL investors! West Covehead, PEI: It still doesn't clarify how did the transaction solve the problem to avoid liability for life on the roads: if #2680692 Ontario forecloses on this property, it assumes the liability for life on the roads. As #2680692 Ontario is owned by HRAC, and HRAC by HMIC, so are its liabilities. The liabilities are coming back to HMIC. About the other one: "Moncton developer blocks longtime entrance to popular trail" HE says it's False (it should bring that up with CBC). If they are referring to "This property is not a provincial park but private development lands.", than they are right. But they still don't get it, HE is just being HE. The point here, dear HE, is made by a Moncton resident: "I just don't think it's very New Brunswicker of this person to put housing in the middle of a public trail that has been used and is very sacred to Monctonians.” I AM SHOCKED!!! SHOCKED I TELL YOU, THAT HE WOULD BE INSENSITIVE TO THE OPINIONS OF THE NEIGHBOURHOOD.
|
|